Item - 2023.MM11.15

Tracking Status

  • This item was withdrawn from the agenda of City Council on October 11 and 12, 2023. No further action will be taken on this item.

MM11.15 - Reimbursement of Cities Forum 2023 Conference Expenses, Torino, Italy - by Councillor Nick Mantas, seconded by Councillor Jennifer McKelvie

Decision Type:
ACTION
Status:
Withdrawn
Ward:
22 - Scarborough - Agincourt

City Council Decision

Item MM11.15 was withdrawn at City Council on October 11 and 12, 2023.

Background Information (City Council)

Motions (City Council)

Motion to Waive Referral (Carried)

Speaker Nunziata advised Council that the provisions of Chapter 27, Council Procedures, require that Motion MM11.15 be referred to the Executive Committee. A two-thirds vote of the Council Members present is required to waive referral.


Motion to Withdraw an Item moved by Jennifer McKelvie (Carried)

That Item MM11.15 be withdrawn from the City Council agenda.


Point of Privilege by Councillor Nick Mantas

During questions of staff, Councillor Mantas, rising on a Point of Order, stated that he has spoken to the City Solicitor and that he has to declare an interest on his Motion.

Ruling by Speaker Frances Nunziata
Speaker Nunziata accepted the Point of privilege and requested procedural advice from staff as to whether Councillor McKelvie, as seconder, should withdraw the motion.


Point of Order by Councillor Gord Perks

Councillor Perks, rising on a Point of Order, stated that it seems to him that the fact that Councillor Mantas moved the Member Motion creates the conflict, and to the Speaker can't simply ask the seconder to take carriage of the Motion. Councillor Perks further stated that he thinks that a Member of Council has to stand to move to withdraw the Motion from the agenda and that he would be happy to do that.

Ruling by Speaker Frances Nunziata
Speaker Nunziata accepted the Point of Order and thanked Councillor Perks.


Point of Order by Councillor Paula Fletcher

Councillor Fletcher, rising on a Point of Order, stated that she would like the Speaker to clarify if it was the role of staff to tell Members of Council when they had a conflict.

Ruling by Speaker Frances Nunziata
Speaker Nunziata accepted the Point of Order and advised that it was out of caution.


Point of Order by Councillor Paula Fletcher

Councillor Fletcher, rising on a Point of Order, stated that she wished to know at what point does a staff member tell a Member of Council when they have a conflict, as it was her understanding that this was up to the Member of Council to determine, and not up to staff or the City Solicitor advising them.

Ruling by Speaker Frances Nunziata
Speaker Nunziata accepted the Point of Order and ruled that Councillor Fletcher was correct.


Point of Order by Councillor Paula Fletcher

Councillor Fletcher, rising on a Point of Order, stated that she has not seen that before and would like the advice and an answer to her question.


Point of Order by Councillor Gord Perks

Councillor Perks, rising on a Point of Order, stated that the Procedure By-law allows City staff to give Council advice to help Members understand moments like this, and it would be in order for the City Solicitor or the Clerk to answer Councillor Fletcher’s question about who has to decide if there is a Conflict of Interest. Councillor Perks further stated that it is his understanding that it is the Members of Council themselves, but that Council may wish to hear from the City Solicitor.

Ruling by Speaker Frances Nunziata
Speaker Nunziata accepted the Points of Order and asked the City Solicitor to address Council.

Wendy Walberg, City Solicitor, advised Council that individual Members of Council are responsible for determining if they have conflicts of interest and they should seek the advice of the Integrity Commissioner if they are uncertain. The City Solicitor further advised that she never advises Councillors that they have a conflict of interest. The City Solicitor noted that Council may recall that there was one instance where the City Solicitor was concerned about a vote on an item but that was a different situation and she raised it for a different reason. The City Solicitor advised that, in this instance, she did not advise the Councillor.


Point of Order by Councillor Paula Fletcher

Councillor Fletcher, rising on a Point of Order, stated that it is not up to the City staff to tell a Councillor when they have a conflict and that the Member perhaps should have been in touch with the Integrity Commissioner on this item. Councillor Fletcher further stated that she had never heard of City Staff advising a Councillor that they had a conflict.

Ruling by Speaker Frances Nunziata
Speaker Nunziata accepted the Point of Order, and asked the City Solicitor to address Council:

The City Solicitor advised Council that political staff had asked her if the individual Member of Council should be voting on this, and there was a discussion regarding process. As a courtesy, City staff contacted the Councillor to suggest contacting the Integrity Commissioner.


Point of Order by Councillor Paula Fletcher

Councillor Fletcher, rising on a Point of Order, stated that this was the second time this Member Motion has been at Council and that she is concerned that, the Integrity Commissioner having been there today, and somehow in the second round of this motion at Council, after a number of questions on the item, somebody has popped up to tell a Member of Council they may have a conflict of interest and she finds that mind-boggling.


Point of Order by Councillor Jennifer McKelvie

Councillor McKelvie, rising on a Point of Order, stated that she is happy to move to withdraw the Member Motion as the seconder. Councillor McKelvie further stated that the last time the motion was at Council, it was withdrawn so that it could be discussed with the Integrity Commissioner and she had been advised this was done. Councillor McKelvie further stated that there was advice by the Clerk's staff that this was the way to do this and now it seems that is not the case. Councillor McKelvie stated that there is something wrong with the process and that she will move to withdraw it and Council can try it again, as Councillor Mantas would like to have this heard by Council.


Point of Order by Councillor Paula Fletcher

Councillor Fletcher, rising on a Point of Order, stated that comments by Councillor McKelvie indicated that the Integrity Commissioner gave advice to the Councillor.

Ruling by Speaker Frances Nunziata
Speaker Nunziata accepted the Points of Order by Councillor McKelvie and Councillor Fletcher, and ruled that there was enough confusion about the item and Council should permit the Motion to be withdrawn to allow the appropriate advice to be sought before the Item re-appears before Council.


Point of Order by Councillor Anthony Perruzza

Councillor Perruzza, rising on a Point of Order, requested that Councillor Mantas be permitted to address Council to state how he would like to proceed with the Member Motion.

Ruling by Speaker Frances Nunziata
Speaker Nunziata accepted the Point of Order and ruled that Councillor Mantas has already stated that he wishes to withdraw the Motion, and requested that Councillor McKelvie do so on his behalf.


Point of Order by Councillor Gord Perks

Councillor Perks, rising on a Point of Order, stated that the Speaker should call Councillor Perruzza out of order for continuing to comment.

Ruling by Speaker Frances Nunziata
Speaker Nunziata accepted the Point of Order.

Source: Toronto City Clerk at www.toronto.ca/council